How to overcome imposter syndrome with Jo Walley.
Shownotes
Welcome to this week's episode of the Future-Proof Your Business podcast. I'm Lucy Rennie, and I'm thrilled to share with you today's episode, part of my 'For the Love of Small Business' series. I'm joined by the incredible Jo Walley, a passionate advocate for helping people develop themselves and unlock their true potential.
Together, we delve into the intricacies of self-discovery, business navigation, and the power of embracing authenticity.
We explore the societal conditioning that often leads us to downplay our achievements and hide our true selves and Jo shares invaluable insights into overcoming self-doubt, navigating imposter syndrome, and embracing vulnerability as a catalyst for growth.
The key takeaways from this episode:
Embracing your true self unlocks a world of opportunities and empowers you to lead fulfilling lives.
By sharing our struggles and insecurities, we help to normalise being vulnerable and create spaces for genuine connection and growth.
Modelling our behaviour and shifting the focus from us gives others permission to do the same.
Recognising our achievements and owning our successes is key to overcoming self-doubt and overcoming Imposter Syndrome.
Putting our well-being first isn't selfish; it's essential for building resilience and being there for others.
And for this week’s challenge, Jo invites you to take some time out for you to reflect and plan and be intentional about what you’re doing in your business and life.
Jo Walley Resource Links:
Jo has invited you to join her for a workshop in the TLC as a guest, simply email **jo@jowalley.co.uk **and book your place.
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[00:00:00] Lucy Rennie: Welcome to this week's episode of the Future Proof Your Business podcast. I'm Lucy Rennie and I'm dead excited today because I have got a brilliant. amazing lady with me as my guest and we're going to have a great conversation about all the ins and outs behind the scenes of running a business and building your own brand and doing all these things.
[00:00:23] Lucy Rennie: And it's part of my For the Love of Small Business series. First of all, massive welcome to Jo. Jo is. Our guest expert today, and she is an energetic, curious, open minded learning facilitator who is driven by a desire to help people develop themselves. And she supports others personal and professional development to empower them to lead a fulfilling life.
[00:00:47] Lucy Rennie: What an intro, Jo. Do you want to share a little bit more about what that means and what you do and how you help people? And yeah, welcome to the show.
[00:00:55] Jo Walley: Yeah, thanks Lucy. Thank you. Even before you read the bio, it's oh, this is an amazing lady and all that stuff comes up, doesn't it? About is she actually talking about me here?
[00:01:04] Jo Walley: But that's what I do actually, ironically, is help people with those feelings of, Is that who I am? Is that what people really think of me? So yeah, I do a lot of one to one coaching, group coaching. I run an online community as well, the TLC community and it's about helping people recognize who they really are live a life that feels right to them and not do that whole Oh, I don't think I'm very good.
[00:01:26] Jo Walley: Oh, I don't think I can do this. But then I have to model that. It's all well and good me doing that for the people that I support, but I still get this. I'm like, Oh, I'm doing a podcast today. So yeah, I have to model that life as well. And yeah, part of it is doing more things like this and helping other people realize that, that, yeah, you can do a lot of these things.
[00:01:45] Lucy Rennie: Yeah, it's so good. It's so important. For those who've listened to my podcast actually that's gone out this morning, I'm talking about my daughter, Ellia, who's gone on a, an adventure week a couple of days this week now, but I was talking about her and exactly that is, we don't, nobody teaches us that, do they?
[00:02:02] Lucy Rennie: Nobody teaches us to be ourselves and how to be confident in ourselves and get over, You can just what is imposter syndrome and all those things and it's the modeling side of it. Like I get it for you and your clients, but I think it's also, that's what I'm trying to do for Elia or I'm trying to do for my clients as well.
[00:02:18] Lucy Rennie: But it's. It's one of those things that I think the more we can normalize it maybe and talk about it. Does that help? I don't know.
[00:02:24] Jo Walley: Totally. And that's the thing and I think you know the more I share and the more which is why yeah Was I a bit nervous before this? Yeah, of course I was. So own that and be honest about it because it like you say normalizes that doesn't it?
[00:02:36] Jo Walley: Otherwise We've had this perception that everyone else is just like winning at life, we go onto social media or we just see the highlights of people's lives. Most people, we're not good friends. We might be a bit more brutally honest about things, but in general, we just share the highlights and then I think we imagine everyone else is just got everything sussed, all of that.
[00:02:56] Jo Walley: And then when we don't feel so confident. It feels like we've got something wrong with us almost. And actually, everyone's going through that. Everyone feels the same. And yeah, and it's really interesting what you say about, helping your daughter as well. Because when I was at high school, we had we went to quite a strict Catholic high school.
[00:03:14] Jo Walley: So we had a very formal uniform and we had a blazer. And on that blazer, it had an, the school crest or whatever. And it had the little logo, surprisingly not in Latin, actually, you would expect, but it was just, and it said, Know Yourself. That was like what our school motto was. And I remember thinking at the time that's a bit daft because I'm here to study for my GCSEs, it's all about knowing other things.
[00:03:35] Jo Walley: But actually now, I recognise that knowing myself is a lifelong journey and it's something that I think if we can instil that into all of us at a young age, it just helps us make sure that, when we're doing, whether that's in work, whether that's in with our friends, we're doing what feels right for us.
[00:03:54] Lucy Rennie: God, that's it's so good. It's so true. And it's, yeah, It's only taken me 45 years to actually embrace that, and be okay about it, and it makes me sad. And we'll always be learning, yeah. Yeah, and I think that's the thing, it makes me sad hearing like my daughter or friends or other people, the kids in my Joining the Dots group and things, because their whole life is just worrying about what other people think, and I'm not good enough.
[00:04:19] Lucy Rennie: Oh yeah. People think I'm weird and all these things, and I just wish we could, yeah, help that, we need to encourage more in schools and all those things to start talking about it younger, I think, because you're right, when you can really be yourself, that's when the magic happens, isn't it, because that's when we connect.
[00:04:35] Jo Walley: Absolutely. Yeah, but we're we're taught from such a young age to conform, right? We, most of us go to school and we're we have to just follow certain rules and we have to do certain things and we have to study for certain subjects and we're molded into these and then you're going to go to college and then you're probably going to go to university but you're going to, all these different things and it's We almost forget the unique, amazing things that we see.
[00:04:58] Jo Walley: I've got two nieces, one who's one and a half, one who's two and a half, and seeing them and their characters is just incredible. But sadly, the way that our society is built, we dampen a lot of that because we want people to conform to those rules. And whilst I understand, education is incredibly important and there are certain benefits to us going through that process, I think it also needs to be balanced with that.
[00:05:20] Jo Walley: Recognizing who you are and what's important to you as well. I know we do a little bit of that in schools with the kind of personal social education stuff, but yeah, I've never, and I used to do gymnastics coaching with young kids and some of them as well, I was noticing in the way they were doing things, they were so worried about what other people thought, and they were so nervous about Other people seeing them do something wrong, or, and it was just about normalizing that, but I never, I've never spoken to anyone and they've said, I don't know what you mean when I say, you know that little voice that says you can't do it, or you know those feelings?
[00:05:53] Jo Walley: Sadly, even at like kids age six or seven, they get that. And sadly, it gets worse as we get older because we've got more evidence of us getting it wrong or not quite meeting expectations,
[00:06:05] Lucy Rennie: gosh, we're going to have such a good conversation because we've just died here, haven't we, already? But it's something I'm so passionate about.
[00:06:13] Lucy Rennie: And it's, again, it really is since Being 45 and going on this journey, even just doing this podcast has been such a learning curve in terms of who I am, and we were just saying, weren't we how, Joe, who's the producer, is amazing, this Jedi lady, who's helped me set it up and has been there behind the scenes.
[00:06:32] Lucy Rennie: I've talked about this before, but it was a nightmare. I was awful. I was in tears. I was laughing. I was breaking down. I was, honestly, if you could, we must have recording somewhere, but it was just, and then it was, that was, finally to get it recorded then to put it out there, and actually have people listen or whatever it was, like with the book and all those things.
[00:06:51] Lucy Rennie: But I, I think. It's that, isn't it? It's that giving that, it's just so important to be able to encourage people to be themselves. And when you're not in that zone or when you're not aware of that, it just seems completely ridiculous and completely, how it's only when you get there and you actually embrace being yourself and you get it, that you can understand it.
[00:07:15] Jo Walley: Also I think it's not like we get there and we're suddenly ourselves. It's an ongoing process. There will be certain things, like with the podcast now, you're yeah, I know what I'm doing, I feel comfortable with this.
[00:07:26] Jo Walley: But then there'll be other circumstances, and not even necessarily big things having a book is quite a big thing. Big thing, having a podcast, quite a big thing, but it could just be like speaking up in a conversation with someone where you feel a little bit overwhelmed by it. Or, it doesn't need to be these big examples, but I feel like it's not like you've got it or you haven't, it's an ongoing thing where, yeah, there's going to be moments where you feel a bit out of your comfort zone, but the more experience you have doing that, if it's the right thing for you to do, like you say, you'll be in flow, you'll be in your zone of genius.
[00:07:56] Jo Walley: And that then becomes more normal. And so it encourages you then to do that. When I first started doing this, I was very, I downplayed everything I did massively. And I would just be like, Oh yeah, I just do this little thing, and I always referred to myself as a freelancer. And then, someone was like you run a business.
[00:08:12] Jo Walley: And I was like, oh no, it's nothing like that. Of course it is. But I, that felt too big and too grown up and too important for it to be something that I was doing. And it's interesting, isn't it? How you then now, when people ask what I do, I say I run a business cause that feels normal now, but it took a long time to get to that.
[00:08:28] Jo Walley: So it's always, it's an ongoing process. Where's that?
[00:08:31] Lucy Rennie: Where does that come from though? What's, what is it behind that? That, like you've just said there, exactly that, where a lot of the time I won't talk about what I do or the experience, cause I have had an amazing life in terms of when you actually think back and all the, experiences around the world and doing what I used to do, but you do, we downplay it or we used, I used to downplay it and not even, and in certain circles, I wouldn't even mention what, like you say, I'd just be, Oh yeah, I do this or I help with a little bit of this and where's that come from?
[00:09:01] Lucy Rennie: What's that about? What is it that we're, Yeah, what's, what is it? Why do we do that?
[00:09:07] Jo Walley: It's interesting, right? Because you read that little blurb. Now, obviously you didn't write that blurb. I wrote that blurb and logically all those things do describe who I am and what I do. But hearing it back is oh, that's not how I describe myself.
[00:09:21] Jo Walley: Yeah it's, a lot of it comes from societal conditioning of That isn't what we do. Some of it's cultural, to be fair, and we, you and I have a lot of similarities in our upbringings in terms of, the country that we live in and gender and educational, but some of those things will feed into that.
[00:09:37] Jo Walley: So some of that and it is societal norms, it's not seen as a positive thing to be boastful about your achievements. And I think there's also a little bit in there that's trying to keep us safe and it's not really keeping us safe, but it's tricking us into thinking that we're keeping it safe.
[00:09:53] Jo Walley: So if I say to someone, Oh, I run a business that will set a certain expectation. Whereas I say, Oh, we'll do a little bit of like freelance work, then. It's almost like you don't want to set those high expectations and then not live up to them. So it's kidding you that it's keeping you safe.
[00:10:08] Jo Walley: But actually, if you don't really talk honestly about who you are and what you can offer, then you're not going to reach the right people that you can help. And that's, I think, what's helped me over time. And I still get it sometimes, but every now and again, when I'm able to stick my head above the parapet, it's because I remember.
[00:10:23] Jo Walley: I'm not able to help the people that need my help if I don't actually speak up about this stuff. So that's what makes a difference for me.
[00:10:30] Lucy Rennie: Yeah, so true. I love that. God, there's so much there. You just said that when I jumped in on, but yeah, it's true. It's It's almost like we're protecting ourselves, aren't we?
[00:10:38] Lucy Rennie: From if we put ourselves out there, someone might judge us or someone might question or call us out and go, Oh, you're a fraud. You don't know what you're talking about. Stop trying to pretend you're being an expert in, those kinds of things. I can see it now in my daughter as well. I was brought up very much with a mum who's Gorgeous people, but very much conscious of what other people thought.
[00:11:03] Lucy Rennie: And Oh don't do that. What people think or shh, be quiet. Don't be, and very much kind of, yeah. So they've always be told to be quiet. Watch, and I can see it in my daughter sometimes with. And how mum is, and it's no, we've got to actually break that cycle and go, so it's, I drive, I'm mad sometimes because I'll actually walk down the park, and there's people about and I'll be singing or dancing or something and Ellie will be like, mum is singing, and I'm like, no, come on, it's funny, and it's, and it's, but it is, it's increasing us, isn't it?
[00:11:33] Lucy Rennie: That kind of, what people think about us and that, in every aspect, actually, and it's. When we begin to be aware of it, that's when you notice it and that's when you can start to change, isn't it? But it is a big thing. Yeah.
[00:11:46] Jo Walley: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I have that for me, it's normally acting in a childlike way which is an important part of who I am.
[00:11:53] Jo Walley: I am certain people bring that side out of me as well, but I am like, I'm a bit silly and I'm, and there's certain things and I used to do gymnastics and so I started this thing where every time I go onto a beach, I do a cartwheel. And it's it's just a thing now that I always do.
[00:12:09] Jo Walley: And I started sharing them on social media as well, because it was a bit funny. But. The first couple of times I did that, I was so self conscious, and I would only do it if there was no one on the beach. Last year, I was on holiday on my own, and I found myself on a beach. And I actually I was in Gran Canaria on this part, it was a cruise.
[00:12:26] Jo Walley: And I ended up Searching the beach for some British people, because I can't speak Spanish, to actually say to them, excuse me, do you mind recording me doing a cartwheel? There's no way I would have done that in the past, because I would be like, oh they're gonna think I'm so stupid, it's so silly, it's so childish.
[00:12:38] Jo Walley: But I was like, no, this is what I like doing, I'm gonna do it. And after I do something like that, or there's a big slide near me, and I remember one time, it's on one of my running routes, and I love going down a slide, and it's perfectly fine for adults to use, like it's strong enough, it's set into a hill.
[00:12:55] Jo Walley: But I was queued up for this for this slide and the kids just kept coming in front of me thinking I was like a parent helping one of the children. I was like, no, I want to go on the slide. And I went down on the slide and all of the other parents were like, played, I'd love to have the confidence to do that.
[00:13:09] Jo Walley: And it's interesting how We don't have that, like we, we lose that ability to do what we actually want to do because we're so worried about following those norms, not being different and following what people expect of us. So yeah, go and sing, go on a slide, go and do, do those things that feel right for you.
[00:13:27] Jo Walley: Yeah,
[00:13:28] Lucy Rennie: everything you've just said, it's that, isn't it? It's tapping back into that joy and what we enjoy doing and being free to be who we are. And that's when the, it is when the magic happens. And I think it's interesting what you're saying, because I think you're talking about modelling as well. In terms of.
[00:13:43] Lucy Rennie: Like you were saying, those parents, probably, if you went and did it every week, you could probably encourage them as well to start if she can do it, maybe I can do it.
[00:13:51] Jo Walley: I wonder if any of them might have done it yeah.
[00:13:55] Lucy Rennie: And they probably went back when it was dark or something, so no one would see them in the first place, but I think it's that, isn't it?
[00:14:01] Lucy Rennie: It's that shifting of the mindset and Yeah. I suppose that's the thing that's driving me with these things is, Oh my God, it fills me with dread coming on here and putting my book out, or doing the things, especially when someone sends a picture saying I've read it, and I'm like, Oh no! And It's what's it mean?
[00:14:17] Lucy Rennie: But then actually, that's what's driving me now, is going, actually let's just do it, and put it out there, and if I, I can't ask anybody else, I'm always trying to So I've nudged my clients and people that work with me to put themselves out there and do the right thing.
[00:14:31] Lucy Rennie: And I can't do that. I can't ask them to do that if I'm not doing it. So that's the thing that makes me show up and do it. And it takes the pressure off me then, because I'm like, it's not about me. I'm just doing it so that, they can't be worse than me doing it. So it'll make it easier for them sort of thing.
[00:14:46] Lucy Rennie: And I think that's the bit, isn't it, that we can and once you start getting over yourself in that way, actually. When you don't care, it's liberty, isn't it? Freedom of just actually
[00:14:55] Jo Walley: Yeah. It's one of the most powerful coaching questions. That, yeah, it comes up quite a lot actually.
[00:15:02] Jo Walley: But one of the most powerful questions can often be, if this was your best friend, what would you recommend that they do? And suddenly we see things differently. Because we see our best friend or, someone that we really admire as they can do anything, they're amazing, they deserve all these good things.
[00:15:17] Jo Walley: Sadly, we don't always apply that same level to us, to ourselves. So sometimes it can be really helpful to think, if it was someone else coming to you with this, what would you, what advice would you give them? And then apply that advice to yourself. Would you be encouraging your best friend to hold back from these amazing things?
[00:15:33] Jo Walley: No, you'd be saying go for it. So why are we applying that to ourselves? So yeah, it's, and also, it could be, we often parents as well want the best for their kids, but actually one of the best things we can do is to set that good example. If you have, and I've got kind of friends who've explained about this if you've got someone who, is role modeling a behavior that they always come last, but they're trying to give their kids every opportunity.
[00:16:00] Jo Walley: Actually, the behavior that the kids will see is you're putting yourself last. They won't notice that. So you think you're doing the best by doing everything for everyone else. Actually, we've got to look after ourselves first. And then that will, like you say it's more about modeling than about how we treat other people.
[00:16:15] Jo Walley: It's about how do we treat ourselves. And that can. It might seem to some people quite selfish, but I always think of that analogy, you've got to put your own oxygen mask on before you can put anyone else's on. And it's the same with anything like this, you've got to look after yourself, and be, that we were all born to be unique.
[00:16:32] Jo Walley: Be unique, and focus on that, so yeah. It's not always easy. I still, I'll still be, I've got a workshop tomorrow and I know I'll be stressed about what I wear and what time I arrive and I'll be nervous. All these things will definitely happen. But it is about getting that in balance and not holding yourself back from things.
[00:16:51] Lucy Rennie: It's so true. And I think, like I was saying to you before, I've just dropped off my daughter this morning at this. Outward bound place for an adventure for two days. And
[00:17:01] Lucy Rennie: I was, I actually got in the car and had a big lump in my throat. My husband rang me and he was like, Oh, I don't know. She went, I don't, but I was dead chuffed because there was 34 kids there and a few quite a few parents lingering and doing and cuddling and, which is, I completely get it.
[00:17:17] Lucy Rennie: I knew that if I did, I knew that I would, if I modeled that behavior earlier, then she would. She would have gone into that place feeling, Oh, mommy's going to miss me. I'm not do it. And actually biting out all weekend. We've been for the last year, we've been building up this moment to give her the confidence.
[00:17:36] Lucy Rennie: And she was like, aren't you going to miss me? Aren't you going to be sad? And I was like, of course I am, but I'm not going to, I'm actually not going to show you that because I want you to go and have good fun. And that's what life is. And you're going to come back and tell me stories. And I was so chuffed this morning because literally, gave her a hug.
[00:17:49] Lucy Rennie: I got to record all the way up to the venue, so she was distracted and not well, that kind of thing. But then she went in, I said I'm gonna go now. She was like, okay. And then she went off and sat with her mates and just did it. And then it was like, that's that.
[00:18:02] Jo Walley: That's that. That's that. It's not any normal thing.
[00:18:05] Jo Walley: Yeah.
[00:18:05] Lucy Rennie: So pleased with that's just, it's that modelling isn't it? You don't always get it right, but it takes things in from us, but it's so important how, yeah, what we see and what we subconsciously, isn't it, take in as well from how other people behave and what, the way we're brought up and all of society in itself.
[00:18:23] Jo Walley: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, no, it's huge. And it's not always easy because there's, there's the logic of how we would choose to behave and then there's the emotions which sometimes mean that we, we don't necessarily behave in a way that we would choose. But it's that recognition that, yeah, that sometimes happens but we notice it and recover.
[00:18:41] Jo Walley: And that's what I'm always helping people with is, and that's why I And I did do a phase actually where I did Facebook live video every day for a month. And I really enjoyed that. I think it was too time consuming to do longer term. But one of the things I really liked about it was that transparency.
[00:18:57] Jo Walley: Because it's not realistic to always be like, Hey, everything's great. I'd say some of those calls were like, do you know what? I'm having a really tough day today. And I even cried on one of them. But I'm not necessarily a person who would say is. Particularly highly emotional.
[00:19:11] Jo Walley: I seem to be getting so more as I get older. I don't know what's going on there. But I feel like it's okay to acknowledge that emotion but also recognize I don't need to you're going to miss your daughter. Of course you are. But does that mean you're going to put your life on hold for two days?
[00:19:25] Jo Walley: No, it doesn't. It's just part of the richness of our life. In the same way that we're not always going to be on it. But that's okay. It's just about, okay what would I want to do? What would I choose to do? So I think it's just about being real with ourselves, being totally honest with ourselves, and then, modeling that for others to enable them to feel that they can do that too.
[00:19:44] Jo Walley: It's
[00:19:44] Lucy Rennie: so good. And you're right, when you were saying about this starts with the self care and about how, that question about how, what would you say to your best friend, that for me, and there's, again, for those who follow this and follow me, you'll know there's a massive chunk in my book about it, about putting your oxygen mask on first and how it starts with you and everything from the inside.
[00:20:06] Lucy Rennie: Even that, yeah. It's only until maybe the last two years where I, because of kind of my, the work I've done on myself actually gave myself permission to do that. I used to fly around the world all the time. Every day. Yeah. And I'd sit, I could probably, I think I can say, the air hostess thing where they say, put your, pull on the oxygen mask.
[00:20:29] Lucy Rennie: I always used to think to myself. Of course, why would I put mine on first? Of course I'm going to help my kids first, or of course I'm going to help, the person next to me. And it's only afterwards you realize that actually, if you haven't got yours on and there's no pressure in the cabinet, how you can't do anything.
[00:20:45] Lucy Rennie: You have got to do that. And it's that modeling again. So I wouldn't even go and have a bath, on my own in the week because I felt guilty for not spending time with my family or with my husband. It's ridiculous because actually we need to be charged, in the right way to be able to, and also I think you're saying about that modeling, it's almost now that's my excuse to go and have a bath is to show Elio or Joshua that they've got to put themselves first and it's okay because I think we're brought up again going out.
[00:21:16] Lucy Rennie: Society. It's all, especially women. Almost, we should be selfless. We should do everything, put other people first and all these things. And that fee, it really does play, doesn't it? In, in, in how we think, how we behave and how
[00:21:30] Jo Walley: we go about it. Yeah, and I think there's also partly, for me anyway, it's, I don't know, it's not my thing that I'd get on my soapbox for, but I do end up talking about it quite a lot is, why is it seen as such a negative thing to be selfish?
[00:21:44] Jo Walley: Why is looking after oneself? And I think it's about balance, there's a bit of a kind of, if you're doing that at the expense of other people, not cool. But it's like you said, and if we, using the oxygen mask analogy, if we don't. have the energy for ourselves, we can't give to other people.
[00:22:03] Jo Walley: We have to receive before we can give. Otherwise, we haven't got anything to give. And if our version of receiving is to give ourselves a little bit of time, a little bit of space, have a bath, go for a walk, whatever those things are. And the kind of phrase self care is interesting because it's different for all of us, right?
[00:22:18] Jo Walley: Some people would hate a bath and some people would love a bath. Some people would hate to go for a run and some people would love to do that. So it's different for all of us, but the stuff that we all need That gives us the energy and resourcefulness to then enable us to give to others. Without that, we're empty, we're tired, we're overwhelmed, we're exhausted.
[00:22:36] Jo Walley: We don't have the capacity to help anyone else. So I don't see it as selfish. And it's interesting, I was talking about this recently with someone and I said, I feel safe enough to be selfish in their presence. And that felt like a bit of a weird thing, but it was like, with a lot of people, I will not do that.
[00:22:55] Jo Walley: So if I'm like, no, I need to go to bed now, or no, I need to go and do this now, but I will feel, if I'm with certain people, I'll feel oh, I'm not sure if I can do that, and I've got a lot of history from my parents. And if I'm with family members, I definitely, don't necessarily honor myself as much as I could do.
[00:23:10] Jo Walley: And what's lovely is when, when you've got partners or friends or, people around you where you do actually feel like you can really look after yourself in their presence. I think it's such a gift to have
[00:23:20] Lucy Rennie: yeah, goosebumps. Yeah. It is. It's that actually. It's though, it's, and I want to say boundaries, but it's not, it's being in that place where you can be yourself and be honest with people.
[00:23:36] Lucy Rennie: Yes, and be
[00:23:37] Jo Walley: an utterly yourself.
[00:23:39] Lucy Rennie: Yeah. And I was talking to someone on Saturday actually, a friend who's going for an operation today. And she's got a little boy who's gorgeous, but severely autistic and she's on her own. And so the fact she was going into hospital to have this intervention. It wasn't just Oh, I need to worry about getting there and all those things.
[00:23:57] Lucy Rennie: She also had to think about childcare and that's not easy in her situation. And there was just loads of things that were complicated, just adding to the mix. And we've all got our own mix, haven't we, of ingredients and stuff. But I was saying to her, just shout out, you've got people who.
[00:24:12] Lucy Rennie: Will help and do and, even just like taking her there. So she didn't have to leave a car, whatever it might be. And she was like, yeah, but it's really tricky, isn't it? Asking for help. And we were talking about it and she, she is one of those people who would jump, she wouldn't think twice about helping anybody, somebody else.
[00:24:29] Lucy Rennie: And I was, I use a similar analogy to her. I was actually, but for you to ask for help for somebody is the best gift. Yeah, because you're being that, you're opening up, you're being vulnerable and you're actually allowing somebody to help you, which is for me that's it. When we really care for someone and we can help them, it's the best gift ever.
[00:24:48] Lucy Rennie: And it's that again, isn't it about reframing everything and helping it that way. So yeah, I love that
[00:24:54] Jo Walley: analogy. Yeah, I think, and I think it's again, it's about flipping it and seeing it in reverse. So in the same way that we say, what advice would you give to your best friend? If your best friend needed help and they didn't come to you and didn't ask for that help, how would you feel?
[00:25:08] Jo Walley: Actually, you feel privileged to help someone and you feel, most of us. Really enjoy helping other people and actually you're taking away that opportunity for someone to do that by not asking them. And they can still say no or they can say I can't quite do that, but I can do this.
[00:25:24] Jo Walley: It's not but I know and I've said this before I've said sometimes I feel like a burden and it's no, it isn't though, is it? Because you're just giving someone that option of I could do with some help on this thing. Is there anything that you can do to help me? Yeah, it's always lovely when we receive that from other people.
[00:25:40] Jo Walley: Yeah,
[00:25:40] Lucy Rennie: definitely. And it, yeah it's removing that guilt, isn't it? It's that guilt that we get. Ourselves first or all those things. And just going back to what we were saying about being, fitting in or feeling like we can be ourselves, our true selves. Mm. I'm intrigued really as to how you help your clients and how you What your approach is to that?
[00:26:02] Lucy Rennie: Cause it's something that I've realized is huge in terms of, my vision where I want people to be able to do a job that they love and that they're not doing something just because they have to, but actually, they've got those templates of doing their passion, which is why I'm working with the younger.
[00:26:19] Lucy Rennie: generation with my joining the dots program and to help them now as they're taking options just to think about and acknowledge what their strengths are and what they enjoy doing. So no, and this isn't a fault of schools because schools haven't got the resources or the time or the, it's not a blaming game, but it's let's give these kids opportunity to.
[00:26:37] Lucy Rennie: Just even just start, think about it. So I'm intrigued really in terms of how you work with your clients or how do you move from that place where you're worrying about what people think and who you are and da, to cause it's not a quick fix, is it? But how, what are the things that you can do?
[00:26:55] Lucy Rennie: examples. What other things do you do to help them to recognize themselves and be more true to themselves?
[00:27:02] Jo Walley: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, no, it isn't a quick fix, you're right. It is on an ongoing journey and I think that's one of the reasons why I'm shifting a little bit in how I do my business as well.
[00:27:11] Jo Walley: In the past, I've done a lot of sort of one off workshops or short term programs. And what I'm doing a lot more of now is supporting people along the journey. Because yeah, it's not just a quick fix. So sometimes I do coaching with someone for a specific purpose, like maybe they're changing a career or something like that.
[00:27:28] Jo Walley: But actually what a lot of the focus is building those long term relationships to support people on that journey. So TLC is my online community linked to the, all the self care stuff. That's why it's TLC. But it's TLC because it stands for the true leaders community. And that is because it's about being true to yourself.
[00:27:45] Jo Walley: And you said about that whole true aspect, and that's a really important part of that. I use it in my coaching as well, but I use it in the TLC group. And that is helping people. It's an acronym. It stands for trusting. Reflecting, understanding and empowering. And those are the sort of principles that underpin a lot of the work that I help people with.
[00:28:03] Jo Walley: It's about trusting yourself. It's about that term trusting the process. It's about trusting other people as well. So there's a bit around that. The reflecting is a huge piece. And that's something that I think we often don't find the time for. I used to work in the past on a project based role.
[00:28:19] Jo Walley: So pretty much, we didn't have any business as usual. It was all project based. And we always said at the end of each project, we'll take time to reflect on what we've learned and use it in the next one. And of course, It never happened because straight away you're into the next thing. So it's about stopping to take that time to reflect and that's a big thing that often comes out of the TLC group calls.
[00:28:39] Jo Walley: Many people, they come away with, yeah, I'm gonna take more time to reflect. And then there's the stuff around understanding. So it's again, understanding ourselves, know yourself, all of that stuff. And then the final piece is empowering. There's Brené Brown, for anyone who's familiar with her work. If you're not, look it up.
[00:28:57] Jo Walley: She's great. I love her. She's got a Netflix documentary as well. But she talks a lot about giving yourself permission. So it's not just empowering other people. Part of it might be around that, but it's also about empowering yourself, giving yourself that time and space giving yourself permission to be a certain way or to do a certain thing.
[00:29:13] Jo Walley: But it's not necessarily all about what we do because we're human beings, not human doings. So those are the sort of principles that underpin that, that true framework. And I work with people to help them understand more about themselves. And then the bit, the reason I like to do it on a sort of longer term basis is it's those tiny little adjustments that you make.
[00:29:30] Jo Walley: It's not huge changes. It's not like you're going to be a totally different person. It's just, you're just going to take those. It's tiny little amendments, but they set that path onto a path that feels more aligned with who you really are. And it's just those sort of little incremental changes. And that's why something like the CRC group works so well because we have regular calls that kind of, you listen about something and you're like, Oh, I've not been doing that thing that's really good for me.
[00:29:55] Jo Walley: So then you start to do it and then you come back and go, yeah, I've done this, but then I forgot about it. And it's about how do you develop the healthy habits for you and how do you help yourself so that when you're faced with new challenges, new decisions, you know what's the right thing to do.
[00:30:10] Jo Walley: You're not overwhelmed or feeling stuck because you know who you are, what you deserve, what's right for you. So yeah, it is an ongoing process, but it's from my perspective, very rewarding to help people
[00:30:20] Lucy Rennie: with that. Yeah, no, it's huge. And I look, yeah. I love everything that you've said there.
[00:30:25] Lucy Rennie: First of all, Brené Brown, I will pop the link in the show notes, so if you don't know who she is You need to. So go and have a listen. But also there's a kind of a bit of a theme as well going on here, but it's those 1 percent little tweaks, those marginal gains, those incremental changes, it's that, isn't it?
[00:30:42] Lucy Rennie: It's baby steps and it's those little things that I talk about constantly, but yeah, and just, and it's okay to then when you, if, if you come off the bandwagon or you to get back on it again and just actually, it's okay. It doesn't matter. Perfect. And we're not going to be perfect, but what are those strategies?
[00:31:01] Lucy Rennie: Or I talk about non negotiables for me. It's it's that awareness, isn't it? So I know now I need to go for a run or I need to make sure I've drinking lots of water or I need my space to breathe or get out and be on my own for a bit. Those are the things I know for me, the kind of, the recipe for me to take me.
[00:31:18] Lucy Rennie: And if I don't, I know it's not going to work. Something goes wrong or I'm not feeling, I'm feeling out of sorts just because one of those things or more of them haven't, been there for various, that might be work to do or whatever it might be sometimes, and coming back to them and refining, finding them again, isn't it?
[00:31:33] Lucy Rennie: Which is, yeah, really
[00:31:34] Jo Walley: important. Yeah. Yeah. It totally is. And it applies to all areas of life, so one of mine, and it's interesting because I pointed out last night, it sounds like such a silly thing, but I'm going to share it because. In the honour of being open and transparent, because if you've got a silly thing, it's fine.
[00:31:48] Jo Walley: Mine, one of mine anyway, is my nails. Okay, so I have always had a bit of a thing for nail polish. I love funky nail colours, and when I look at my hands when I'm typing, if my nails are painted and they look neat and tidy, it's a way, like a symbol for me that I'm looking after myself.
[00:32:07] Jo Walley: And I don't think my nails have been painted in Possibly since Christmas. I did some Christmas nails and then I don't think I've done it. And it's not a huge thing, but it's just I noticed it last night and I was like, do you know what? I've not been making time for looking after myself actually in that way.
[00:32:22] Jo Walley: I've been doing other things, I've been, going to the gym. I love going to the gym. I love exercising. So there's other things, but there's, it's like you say, there's those certain non negotiables that you can use as little kind of triggers for going, do you know what? I've not had any time to myself in ages or I've not been doing this.
[00:32:37] Jo Walley: And that might be why I'm feeling a bit. So yeah, it's just noticing those little tiny things and then making that time to do that. But it's the same, that's like personal life, but also the same in your business. I notice if I'm not planning, business stuff doesn't happen properly because I'm just reacting.
[00:32:53] Jo Walley: I'm just responding. I'm working, I'm still doing stuff, but I'm not proactively planning for the things that feel right for the business. So it's the same with that. Those small little amendments, if I plan my week out, I know I will have a much better week in all ways. And it's, I'll actually possibly work fewer hours, but there'll be more focus on the right things.
[00:33:14] Jo Walley: So I know for me, now for other people that might not work, but for me, there's certain little things that I know really work well for me. And when I don't do them. Things don't feel quite as right. So it's about learning what those things are for you and working out how to keep those, like I say, like healthy habits, yeah.
[00:33:32] Lucy Rennie: It's exactly that. And you just made the connection with business, but I think that's why we're talking about this on this podcast is because, Yeah. For me that's the inside out approach. It's if you're not in a good place, then you can't show up in the right way and you can't, you can't do what you need to do in the right way and make that magic and have that impact and do all the things.
[00:33:52] Lucy Rennie: So it does start with you. And I'm always going on about it, but I think that's even more important. who we are and our mindset and how we approach things and how we look after ourselves and really tapping into ourselves. It's almost more important than a skill you can learn about AI or doing a new, some, whatever, technology or whatever that might be.
[00:34:10] Lucy Rennie: It really, I can't emphasize it enough in terms of. And again, we don't get taught that. That's something we've got to learn. And when you start a business and even if you don't own your own business or run your own business, but you're a manager or you're in your job, if you're not in a good place, you're not going to show up in this in the right way again, are you?
[00:34:29] Lucy Rennie: So it is. Completely all interconnected and it's that ripple effect. With that in mind, I'm conscious we could speak for hours, so I think we feel like we need to have you back. I know. This conversation. I know you're going to come and do a masterclass, aren't you, in the Future Proof Club in March, which I'm really excited about.
[00:34:47] Lucy Rennie: Yep. For listeners then, who are listening to us having a, yeah, a deep dive into this what would the takeaway be? What would you recommend if there was one thing that people could take away from this conversation and maybe if you, if they're on that journey where they're still in that zone of, Oh, I can't do this.
[00:35:04] Lucy Rennie: And how can you help them? What's the thing they could do? What's the first thing?
[00:35:09] Jo Walley: Yeah, thanks. And actually it's underpinned a lot of what we're talking about. But the thing that I always, it always comes out of one to one coaching. It always comes out of the TLC course. It is just giving yourself time and space.
[00:35:20] Jo Walley: It's a different amount and a different type of time and space for different people. So notice what it is for you. Is it small amounts of time? Is it that every now and again you need a half day or a day to yourself? And also it doesn't necessarily need to be by yourself, but it needs to be at a space where you can feel totally comfortable, totally safe to be exactly how you are.
[00:35:41] Jo Walley: And taking that little bit of time for ideally, some form of reflecting. So you can go, what's going really well at the moment? What am I celebrating? We always start our TLC calls with what are we celebrating at the moment? Take some time to do that. At the end of the day, when you're brushing your teeth, some people do a sort of gratitude practice.
[00:35:56] Jo Walley: And I love to encourage that. What are we celebrating? What are we really proud of? Did you stick to a gym routine? Did do something? Did you have a really honest conversation with your mum today? Did you have it? Whatever that thing is, whatever that. That thing to be proud of.
[00:36:10] Jo Walley: And also during that time for yourself to possibly start to think about the future. You want to be present in that moment. So if you want to do like a mindful walk, one of the things we talk about is choosing a letter of the alphabet. And once you go on your walk, finding things that start with that letter or choosing a shape or a color.
[00:36:26] Jo Walley: So you can be really present in that time, but also when thoughts do start to come into your mind, focus on Who, who are you, what feels right for you, and start to make those sort of little tiny amendments to the plans that feel right. Mine at the moment is going to be, I'm going to paint my nails soon, right?
[00:36:42] Jo Walley: So then start to think about how you're going to do those little things. But yeah, the biggest takeaway is just finding that time and space for you to be yourself and to learn more about yourself. And then it will help, it will top up your energy level to then enable you to be more yourself.
[00:36:57] Lucy Rennie: Thank you. I love that. So yeah, cause we know each episode, especially when we have guest speakers on, I ask, give people a challenge. So I suppose really that's this week's challenge to make some time to commit time for themselves.
[00:37:11] Jo Walley: Yeah. And again, it. It could be in a different way. You might, it might not be this week.
[00:37:16] Jo Walley: It might be a little bit of time each day. Or like I say, for some people, so one of the things we do in TLC is at the, on the last, which actually is this week but it's. on the last working day of every month, we take a little bit of time to reflect on our month, but you can do the same with your day.
[00:37:30] Jo Walley: You can do the same with your week, but just giving yourself a little bit of time and space and actually committing to it. Don't just put it in your calendar and then go, Oh, but this is more important. Actually commit to some, a small amount of time and space. That's just for you in the next week or so.
[00:37:45] Lucy Rennie: Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. And yeah, if you're listening let us know how you get on with that and if you do it and what comes up. Yeah. Or yeah how you. And ask yourself what you're celebrating. I think that's a great way. Sometimes don't do it, especially as well. Yeah. Oh, we're on to the next thing and the next thing.
[00:38:03] Lucy Rennie: And then we don't take time to stop and realise, how far we've come. My challenge to you Jo is though, I'd love you to do your nails this morning just this afternoon after our thing and send me a and I'll pop them in there. I'll use it when we share the episode next
[00:38:18] Jo Walley: week. Yeah that's another thing, isn't it?
[00:38:20] Jo Walley: It's that accountability. And that's why it works so well in the TLC group environment, because people feel more accountable once they've said, what I'm going to do before we next speak is X. And yeah, 100%, there's that aspect of
[00:38:32] Lucy Rennie: it as well. Yeah, definitely. So on that note, if people want to find out more about you and what you do and how to get in touch, what should they do or where should they go?
[00:38:41] Jo Walley: So you go to my website, joewally. co. uk but the easiest way to contact me is just joe at joewally. co. uk and yeah, drop me an email. I'd love to hear actually, if you do well, when you make that time and space for yourself how it goes. And the other thing that I just wanted to say as a sort of offer for anyone listening I've mentioned a couple of times, the TLC calls as part of the community, we have three calls every month they're like a group coaching, but yeah we do a little grounding practice at the beginning.
[00:39:09] Jo Walley: We celebrate successes and we talk about a certain topic and then we always leave with a commitment of what are we going to do differently which is just those kind of minor amendments. I often offer gifts and so I'd like to say, if you'd like to join one of those calls as a guest, it would be wonderful to see you.
[00:39:24] Jo Walley: So if you want to do one of those as well, please get in touch with me and I'll let you know when they are and we can hopefully come and join. It's a lovely community. They love welcoming guests when we do this. So do feel free if that's your time and space then come and join us for that as well.
[00:39:37] Lucy Rennie: Oh, that's perfect. Thank you so much. Because that almost gives people no excuse now if they've got to dedicate that time. Yeah.
[00:39:43] Jo Walley: And to be honest, and that's one of the big things that, that I'd say, possibly 100%, but most of the people who are part of the community, when I talk to them about, okay, what are you getting from this?
[00:39:55] Jo Walley: What's it helping with? They all say, I just really love that it's time and space To give to me, I'm by investing in this community as I'm turning up, I'm showing up for myself and I'm showing that this is important. And there will always be little things that you learn. You're part of a community to help others, but predominantly it's about giving you the time and space that you deserve.
[00:40:16] Lucy Rennie: No, that's brilliant. Thank you. And I completely agree with you. And I'm really looking forward to your masterclass for your workshop that you're going to be doing in the future in March. We can delve even deeper, I think into this topic. And yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for coming and talking to me.
[00:40:33] Lucy Rennie: I feel like we're running out of hours, so we definitely need to reschedule and have another chat at some point. But thank you. And for those who are listening, please go and check out Jo, go and connect with her and let us know how you get on with the challenge of making some time for yourself and what comes up.
[00:40:48] Lucy Rennie: Yeah, if you've enjoyed this podcast, share it with yeah, share it with those people, who need that little boost and a little nudge to put themselves out there a bit more and feel a bit more ready to be themselves and get rid of, not get rid of the imposter syndrome, because I think it's always going to be there and we've got to make friends with it.
[00:41:04] Lucy Rennie: But it will be there. So yeah, thank you for listening and thanks again, Joe. And I will see you next week for another episode of the Future Proof Business Podcast. Take care. Thank you.